Angry with AT&T meddling and blocking upgrades on Android? Let them Know Here!

[sonicthoughts]

I have posted my frustration in several different threads but believe we should have 1 thread just talking about this topic.

I have been a loyal AT&T customer for many years. Starting with an iPhone and later moving to Android.I am incredibly happy with Android as a platform and AT&T as a carrier.I tried the GS3 and then the Note II - paying full price because I was not entitled to an upgrade. It has been magnificent and money well spent.

My only frustrate has been with AT&T. On the iOS platform, I had a strong user relationship with Apple. I felt that I was getting the authentic Apple experience and it didn't really matter what platform or carrier I was with. The phone didn't have all sorts of AT&T bloatware. And AT&T did quite a good job of providing voice and data services. Apple had vendor strength and called the shots.

With Android, however, AT&T has been very invasive. They do not seem to understand that my smartphone is basically like a PC for me. In the early nineties when you purchase the phone it was essentially an extension of the carrier network, but no longer. I do understand the business decision that AT&T wants to make by branding and adding value added services to my phone so that it will be harder for me to switch, but this is not the 1990s and a smartphone no longer a node on the network. Could you imagine if Microsoft needed to get approval for all updates that traveled over Verizon FIOS?

Why can't AT&T I understand that all of the garbage that they put on my phone, and all of these rules to protect their network, is making customers like me very angry. I don't want your smart wifi app, or your navigation, or locker any of your value added services. I simply want the purest Google or perhaps Samsung experience possible. If you have something that is truly innovative or an extension of the experience, fine, perhaps I'll try it, but at least let me remove it from my computer. I find it so arrogant that you will force it upon me to have these services and applications and keep them on my phone. Imagine if there were an application that couldn't be removed on my Dell computer, you could bet they would get a lot of hostility.

Rather than try and hide behind network security or network integrity why not focus your efforts on making a hardened interface for Google to sit on top of? How dare you pick a part Google Android and update, remove Google Wallet from my phone as well as the FM radio!

I'm convinced that the network carrier who understands this will be dominant in the Android Market. Transparency and humility will be the ultimate "value add" from a carrier and those who are arrogant and take advantage of users will be despised. If this continues, one day you will look back at these business practices of today and be ashamed and judged harshly. Alternatively, you have an opportunity to be a leader in changing the industry by giving your customers the freedom they deserve.

[Theojt]

Agree.  AT&T bloatware is truely crapola with no added value.  However, if your Google-foo is strong, you will find that which you seek.

[sonicthoughts]

Yes, but I'm really trying to give AT&T a message here - they are going to lose customers by making us outlaws and hacking / subverting their policies.  

[chinefoo]

My wife works for a company that tests a lot of these phones and trust me when i say HTC and Samsung are really mad that features they advertise are missing from thier phone! Now if you really want full functionality you will have to root and load a rom there are a lot out there and it really pays to take a week to really read up on what one to use and how to do it! but i have the s3 and im running 4.1.2 its custom but ill tell ya this nfc file transfer has a BUTTON not touch phone i have the option of how i share at&t removed that and about 25 other really cool features on this phone... the S4 is in the making and samsung is considering not letting at&T sell thier phone !

[sonicthoughts]

Yes, I know and many people are doing that.  It breaks the warranty and is considered "taboo".  The message we need to get to AT&T is that they are creating "outlaws" with there business practices. The crazy thing is that it is my phone??? Could you imagine if they did this with my PC just becuase it is connected to their network?  Or if the electric company stopped interfered with my pc because it's on their grid??

[chinefoo]

Well what they are worried about is bricking and frying parts of the phone and bypassing thier restrictions! also ntm thier bloatware,

Btw , all thier "extra features" are plain garbage everyone can be beat by 3 star rated apps on google play,....if you buy an international unbranded phone direct from samsung you would see the full potential of the phone it really is quite an amazing piece of hardware!

my wife has told me that apple has under the table asked all carriers of thier phones to "dummy" them down a little,,, Apple has done this since day one!

Apple makes a good phone but compaired to a unbranded s3,, and from what my wife said on s4, apple might as well go back to drawing board!

[sonicthoughts]

No LTE on international though....

[chinefoo]

Well as much as it seems to be great lte on at&t is slower than verison! how ever it depends on your data plan. wifi is better than everything!  so its a give and take!

ntm it only took apple 5 phones for lte?

[ren1pa]

Totally agree. As soon as I fulfill my agreement they will lose two accounts from my family. They refuse to upgrade to jelly bean on two phones that were purchased brand new 16 months ago. (ATRIX 4G and HTC Inspire) Change to Sprint or Verizon??? Thanks, ren

[chinefoo]

those 2 phones dont have an upgrade to jelly bean! you can root and put a butcherd form of it on them but not a good idea . your contract is up, or soon to be at&t as a whole isnt bad , many other companys have real rotten reception and horrible service.. upgrade to new phones !

[21stNow]

---

chinefoo wrote:

Well as much as it seems to be great lte on at&t is slower than verison! how ever it depends on your data plan. wifi is better than everything!  so its a give and take!

ntm it only took apple 5 phones for lte?

---

The carriers' LTE data speeds depend on your location.  Where I am, AT&T's LTE is over twice as fast as Verizon Wireless' speeds.  Also, everyone doesn't have fast Wi-fi.  I'll take my AT&T LTE speeds any and every day.

[21stNow]

---

ren1pa wrote:
Totally agree. As soon as I fulfill my agreement they will lose two accounts from my family. They refuse to upgrade to jelly bean on two phones that were purchased brand new 16 months ago. (ATRIX 4G and HTC Inspire) Change to Sprint or Verizon??? Thanks, ren

---

Most phones on Sprint and Verizon Wireless that are 16 months old aren't receiving the Jellybean update, either.

[21stNow]

---

sonicthoughts wrote:

I have posted my frustration in several different threads but believe we should have 1 thread just talking about this topic.

I have been a loyal AT&T customer for many years. Starting with an iPhone and later moving to Android.I am incredibly happy with Android as a platform and AT&T as a carrier.I tried the GS3 and then the Note II - paying full price because I was not entitled to an upgrade. It has been magnificent and money well spent.

My only frustrate has been with AT&T. On the iOS platform, I had a strong user relationship with Apple. I felt that I was getting the authentic Apple experience and it didn't really matter what platform or carrier I was with. The phone didn't have all sorts of AT&T bloatware. And AT&T did quite a good job of providing voice and data services. Apple had vendor strength and called the shots.

With Android, however, AT&T has been very invasive. They do not seem to understand that my smartphone is basically like a PC for me. In the early nineties when you purchase the phone it was essentially an extension of the carrier network, but no longer. I do understand the business decision that AT&T wants to make by branding and adding value added services to my phone so that it will be harder for me to switch, but this is not the 1990s and a smartphone no longer a node on the network. Could you imagine if Microsoft needed to get approval for all updates that traveled over Verizon FIOS?

Why can't AT&T I understand that all of the garbage that they put on my phone, and all of these rules to protect their network, is making customers like me very angry. I don't want your smart wifi app, or your navigation, or locker any of your value added services. I simply want the purest Google or perhaps Samsung experience possible. If you have something that is truly innovative or an extension of the experience, fine, perhaps I'll try it, but at least let me remove it from my computer. I find it so arrogant that you will force it upon me to have these services and applications and keep them on my phone. Imagine if there were an application that couldn't be removed on my Dell computer, you could bet they would get a lot of hostility.

Rather than try and hide behind network security or network integrity why not focus your efforts on making a hardened interface for Google to sit on top of? How dare you pick a part Google Android and update, remove Google Wallet from my phone as well as the FM radio!

I'm convinced that the network carrier who understands this will be dominant in the Android Market. Transparency and humility will be the ultimate "value add" from a carrier and those who are arrogant and take advantage of users will be despised. If this continues, one day you will look back at these business practices of today and be ashamed and judged harshly. Alternatively, you have an opportunity to be a leader in changing the industry by giving your customers the freedom they deserve.

---

I agree that I don't like carrier bloatware and think that we should have the option to remove it.  However, many customers do like it.  You can always go for a Nexus device if you don't like carrier interference of any kind.  The Nexus 4 is on the Google Play Store for $350 for the 16GB model and $300 for the 8GB model.  Those prices are hard to beat without a contract and its subsidy.

[NickelobUltra]

"However, many customers do like it."  LOL, good one.  Maybe if they're braindead.

I always uninstalled or just ignored AT&T bloatware, however I gave up on AT&T with their 4.0.4 update for the Galaxy S2 SGH-i777.  I had to root my phone to get it back to 2.3.6, and planning on installing a custom version of 4.1.2 because honestly I'm done with AT&T's awful attempts at  ***** into Android updates.  It's things like this that will push me to move to Verizon, AT&T.

[Edited to comply with Guidelines]

[sonicthoughts]

At&t I've tried to download the 4.1.2 update at least 10 times.  Been told I have to wait 152 hours - now what out of touch programmer came up with that.  I've heard you need to stagger updates, well I bet Google could update all the Note 2 phones in an hour and they would be happy to do it.  Apple certainly can.  Just for some example of the frustration and circumvention take a look at this post:  http://forums.androidcentral.com/t-galaxy-note-2/238649-multi-view-update-december-27th-12.html .

I'm not on a rant, just hoping that someone at AT&T with some respect for users will read this.

[kgbkny]

@sonicthoughts:

First and foremost, thank you for a well thought-out post. I completely agree with everything you've stated; in fact, I myself have voiced my frustration with carriers meddling in updates many times. Your PC analogy is perfect. I'm typing this post on my ASUS desktop that's using an Optimum (Cablevision) internet connection. Optimum has no involvement with software updates, despite the fact that I'm using their network. Why do the phone carriers feel that they need to get involved with something that's clearly outside of their scope of expertise?

The only reason I purchased the AT&T variant of the GS3 is to get LTE capability. If Google released a Nexus device that was LTE-compliant, I would never buy another carrier variant again. I don't care for the bloatware at all (for instance, why in the world would I use AT&T Navigator, when Google Maps offers navigation free of charge???), and I feel a lot of contempt for carriers as a result of them not allowing users to remove the bloatware. As you've stated, we bought the phones - as such, we own them. As owners, we should be able to do as we wish with our equipment without having to resort to rooting. When a phone is advertised with 16GB of onboard storage, but about 2GB is filled with non-removable junk, isn't that unethical?

[garretttv]

On the topic of how worthless AT&T's (and other carrier's) applications are, I spent an hour and a half on the phone with their high up technical support trying to diagnose why the voicemail on my girlfriend's phone suddenly became completely unfinctional. The shirt story is that it was caused by a combination of AT&T Messages and Visual Voice Mail apps (neither of which had ever been used on the phone...literally never). Even once they isolated the issue, their tech support couldn't fix it, so I had to convince my g/f to finally let me install Google Voice on her phone and use its voicemail services. The bottom line is that Google Voice (and Maps, and other stock android features, as well as most iOS features) are simply better alternatives than the absolute junk that ATT tries to force down our throats. But ATT doesn't get that. No one wants to or will ever develop their apps, while other independant companies, both large and small, spend far more time developing far superior alternatives that the phones are designed to use. ATT cannot aand will never be able to compete wwith this nor prevent them from being used. I had a 10 minute conversation with an ATT technician about how shewould llove for ATT to get rid off all of their built inbapps because they are routinely the source of problems with their phones this company simply doesn't get it and doubtfully ever will. Buying the HOX was my last shot with ATT. Next year ill be buying Google's 5th Nexus device and taking it to whichever carrier has the most reasonable rates.

[sonicthoughts]

I think AT&T is a great carrier.  I love their LTE.  I agree that people are going to abandon, but hopefully this thread and making your concerns know to customer service, facebook, etc.  will get the message to AT&T so they change their practices and align with user's wishes.

[garretttv]

I've been happy with Att's network for many years and it's allowed me to overlook a lot of these concerns. However, the direction they've been moving and the lack of attention they actually pay to their customers makes it very diffcult to envision staying with them. Customer service and response to concerns has to improve. This company is consistently rated the poorest carrier for these issues, year in and year out. If they can't adapt, people will move on. Surely others will move to att for their own reasons, but eventually the churn wont balance.

[sonicthoughts]

Well put.  Completely agree.  I hope AT&T is actually reading these forums and listening to the customer voice.  The only thing we can do at this point is use these venues to vent - or swtich carriers.  I've grown heavily dependent on mobile and don't take these decisions lightly. 

[garretttv]

Exactly.  Even though mobile resources are ultimately a convenience, they have become a basic aspect of business and commerce and are ultimately critical for people.  We have to voice concerns in some way and just hope carriers have a shred of interest in actually paying back their customers in some way.  The game is far different than it was even a few years ago, where people just put with with unreliable coverage and poor customer service because there wasn't something better and mobile reliability wasn't what it is today.  ATT really needs to examine the fact that they are very out of touch with what most of their customers are looking for.

[harryspar]

They don't seem to care, people who know what's flying are usually not so profitable for ATT anyway. They usually are the same people who check thier bills for overcharges etc.
They really want to do business with clueless folks who use their crapware like ATT Navigator and Visual Voicemail and premium SMS et cetera and have huge bills every month that they don't pay attention to.

[garretttv]

Absolutely, and thats their business plan and thats fine. I suppose the best we can hope for is that they take customer considerations to mind and adapt over time. They aren't too large a company that they can't do themselves in. I anticipate no immediate change but they may not have an option down the road when satisfaction rating continue to absolutely bottom out and customers free themselves of contracts and leave. It's simply inevitable. Look at what happened to sprint.

[kgbkny]

As noted earlier, I'm waiting anxiously until LTE becomes the standard and Google begins producing Nexus devices with LTE radios. The only thing that stopped me from buying a Nexus 4 is the lack of LTE support. After using LTE, HSPA+ just doesn't keep up. Otherwise, I'd drop my GS3 like a bad habit. Nothing against the GS3, as it's a great phone. However, the manufacturer overlay (TouchWiz) and carrier meddling are two major strikes against it.

[manicdroid]

I cant agree with you more, I have installed a custom rom and have jelly bean and could not be happier with my phone. Before I was running the stock 4.0 OS and with all the AT&T bloatware slowed my phone down so much and contiously crashed I was extremly frustrated with it. Every update was more bloatware installed. I will never use there bloatware, this is my phone I own it and I should have the right to remove it. If I own it why or how do they have the right to install what they want. So I was fed up with so much of there crap on my phone and fed up with wating for jelly bean I installed a custom ROM and my phone is running perfect, no bloatware and never crashes. Been a customer for over 10 years and really getiting tired of the way AT&T has been lately.

Looking for some other carrier to go......

[harryspar]

Prepaid is going to take over. Look at ting.com . They "get" what customers want.

[kgbkny]

If prepaid companies were able to offer the same level of service as postpaid carriers, I'd switch in a second. Unfortunately, data throttling, spotty coverage, and lack of LTE are big issues. Some prepaid services cut off data connectivity altogether, once you hit 2 - 2.5 GB.

Of course, MetroPCS (soon to be part of T-Mobile) is prepaid and has LTE, but.....their LTE footprint is extremely limited, they use CDMA technology, and they lack high end phones.

[harryspar]

True. Also the prepaid companies depend on the big guys whose networks they are piggybacking on.

I do hope that as they attract more customers away from Big Wireless, the big guys will start respecting thier customers more and change thier policies, plans, and prices so we can start using them again.

---

[redpoint73 ACE - Wizard]

---

harryspar wrote:

True. Also the prepaid companies depend on the big guys whose networks they are piggybacking on.

I do hope that as they attract more customers away from Big Wireless, the big guys will start respecting thier customers more and change thier policies, plans, and prices so we can start using them again.

---

I doubt these small prepaid and regional carriers hurt the business of the big 4 in any way.  The big carriers must benefit to some degree from licensing their bandwidth out, otherwise they wouldn't bother doing it.  Likely not as profitable as having the same customers on postpaid accounts, but profitable nonetheless.  Although I don't know the specifics, and just thinking out loud a bit here.

[CyberBrew]

I am glad I found this forum.  I too have been with AT&T for quite some time (hope retention department gets to read these posts).  Since I bought my Galaxy Note II I have had two instances with the AT&T loaded applications that have caused me fits and I have seen NOTHING from AT&T to let me know there is a problem or that that they are aware and working on a problem or ANYTHING.  Instead I have to find out by using Google and other people that have had the same issues and frustrations.

Issue one was with the AT&T Locker.  All I did was execute the application to see what it was about.  I did not create a "cloud" account.  Afterwards I noticed my 3100 maH battery was being drained like mad!  I found this by looking at the app stats and finding this culprit eating the battery.  Of course, NO WAY to uninstall it.  The fix was to back off the update, Force Stop the app and stop any further updates and disable the app.  Havne't had a issue with the battery draining in less than 24 hours since.

Second issue was with the AT&T Smart W-Fi.  Everything was working fine other that dealing with the constant battle between this app and the core OS trying to connect my WiFi.  Then I started seeing an issue of the override issue causing my WiFi to turn off after I turned it on manually or turn it on after I had turned is off manually.  WHO IS TESTING THIS STUFF?!!?  Same fix as the other application, back off the update, Force Stop the application, stop any further udpates and diable the app.  Haven't had a problem with WiFi since.

I WILL SAY that after this latest frustrating headache I have started seriously thinking about leaving AT&T after my contract is up and switching to the Google Nexus products instead.  I am so tired of dealing with bloatware and the issues they cause.  The ONLY way I would consider not leaving is if AT&T would admit there are issues, let us know they are working on them and providing an update with a fix.  I don't hate AT&T, but I do hate when I do not have options to control my device the way I wish.